FK0071a

Hi,

I know this is controversial but I hope we can have an educated sensible discussion on this. The only reason I make a topic here is because I want to learn and help educate.

I know that this has been discussed many times here - See 'Ähnliche Themen’ at the bottom of these links:

*Schwarze Sonne
*Kann die schwarze Sonne belegt werden?

Is it true that there is, although its origins are unknown, an identical rendition of Wewelsburg's Schwarze Sonne in a wall painting at a World War II military bunker memorial of Bismark at Hamburg below a statue of Bismark? Can you give me any references ot this in German or English?

Also, before this is closed (I hope that it is not), please see this information page here: Black Sun (occult symbol) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because Heathens Against Hate want to reclaim this symbol: Untitled Document

I believe it is older than the Nazis. Because Nazis celebrated Yule should be stop? No!
I believe it was in Wewelsburg before the Nazis.
I believe it is based on ancient jewellry, pagan symbols.
I believe that a picture of it is at a World War II military bunker memorial of Bismark at Hamburg below a statue of Bismark. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Also, what do these German words mean? -

*Gynandria
*Weltgerichtes
*Hag
*Hag-All

Thanks!

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ABOUT ME

"Try everything out without bias or preconceived ideas, and hold on to whatever works best." - Karl Spießberger, 'Der erfolgreiche Pendel-Praktiker.'

Heathens Against Hate

Wetterleuchtskind

First a question. WHO are theese heathens?
You seem to be a little very obsessive about the Nazisymbols in my opinion.

*Hag is an old word for a wall, border of plants like roses or blackthorn

StarFire

There are sunwheels found in archeological museums. They all date back into bronze age and iron age and have 4 to 10 "arms". A sunwheel with 12 arms only exists in the Wewelsburg and ist definitely a nazi-symbol.

The black sun is not a "sonnenrad" it's only a similar symbol.

I do not know about the Bismack-Denkmal, but if there is a sunwheel it's also "neuzeitlich". A new sign, that is not found in older times. Sunwheel and swastika are synonyms for the same thing.

There ist definitely no reliable source, that the black sun is an old traditional sign.

SF

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Handle, ehe es da ist / Lenk es ehe es wirr wird / Der Weise geht zurück den Weg, den die Menschen gingen / um den Dingen zurückzuhelfen zu ihrer Natur / und wagt nur eines nicht: wider die Natur zu handeln.

Esoterische Tierwelt - was für ein Tier bist Du?
Allgemeines zur Natur der Magie
Vom Wünschen und vom Wollen
Wahrhaftigkeit und Glaube

FK0071a

Thanks for the information on Hag!

No, I am not obsessed! I have only asked about one symbol that could be construde as Nazi and that is the Black Sun.

But, what do these mean:

*Gynandria
*Weltgerichtes

But I do find it interesting and I want to get to the bottom of things to educate myself and others. How can I or anyone learn if we don't ask? If you read the below you will know why I am doin this, it is my project to separate Nazism from Pagans.

I am worried that some people here are getting the wrong impression of me? I am worried that they think I am racist? I ONLY ask questions because I am eager to learn and appreicate all the help anyone can give me. I don't think I am racist for asking question. I want to separate Odinism from Nazism and to do this I research as much as I can. One way to do this was to read the actual literature of Nazi occultism: The Secret King - their is no other book that documents this information. I use Wikipedia and started a project to save Asatru/Odinism from Nazi's and this is my intention. The aim of this project is to educate readers & editors about the concept of Germanic Revivalism, Germanic mysticism
and its misrepresentation and connection with Nazi mysticism in the commercial media.

I hope this explains. I don't want to turn this topic into a discussion on this, I only want this topic for the Black Sun information.

If my reasons are to be discussed it is for a separate topic.

I don't know 'Heathens Against Hate' but they also have this site: Heathens Against Hate and this site: Norse Mythology, Asatru, Heathen Art: Woden's Harrow

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ABOUT ME

"Try everything out without bias or preconceived ideas, and hold on to whatever works best." - Karl Spießberger, 'Der erfolgreiche Pendel-Praktiker.'

Heathens Against Hate

Witichis

While the Schwarze Sonne as shown in Wewelsburg probably indeed is a SS design product, it's meaning transcends any political ideology and it was not bound to a nazi organization. Otherwise it had been forbidden in Germany as many other NS symbols. Son you don't need to 'reclaim' it.

There are many different interpretations about the Black Sun and everybody can take from it what he likes.

suebin

I do not speek Greek but I assum "Gynandria" has both to do with women (gyn...) and men (andros...). Whatever the correct and complete meaning might be, I do not know but maybe somebody in this forum knows the ancient or even modern Greek language.

Regards

FK0071a

This is excellent information given by intelligent people like Witichis and his comments. I am so pleased people are educated and intelligent here rather than just closing things down and not sharing information.

Thank you!

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ABOUT ME

"Try everything out without bias or preconceived ideas, and hold on to whatever works best." - Karl Spießberger, 'Der erfolgreiche Pendel-Praktiker.'

Heathens Against Hate

freies Radikal

„Weltgerichtes“ means something like judgement day, translated word by word it is “world judgement”, but this does not fit, I think.
Gynandria is not German as far as I know.
Biological it has something to do with Gender by plants?
Maybe reproduction without Sex???

freies Radikal

Please remember the Wewelsburg ist not very old for a castle.
There were no knights their. The castle is very small, build as a little Fort against the local revolting farmers, as guns were common in use. It was not built for a war, our as more than for local lord, it is not a palace.

StarFire

Gynandria \Gy*nan"dri*a\, n. pl. [NL. See Gynandrian.] (Bot.)
A class of plants in the Linnaean system, whose stamens grow out of, or are united with, the pistil.

__________________
Handle, ehe es da ist / Lenk es ehe es wirr wird / Der Weise geht zurück den Weg, den die Menschen gingen / um den Dingen zurückzuhelfen zu ihrer Natur / und wagt nur eines nicht: wider die Natur zu handeln.

Esoterische Tierwelt - was für ein Tier bist Du?
Allgemeines zur Natur der Magie
Vom Wünschen und vom Wollen
Wahrhaftigkeit und Glaube

Rattenfaenger

Wewelsburgs history is interesting. Had been destroyed and rebuilt several times and there are no hints that the black sun of the Wewelsburg has not its origins in the nazi ideology, but everything points to that Himmler and his esoteric advisors are the source of this special sunwheel. Man, there are as many sunwheels as stars in the sky, what are you up to? Got problems with reality? Forget the nazi shit.

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FK0071a

Thank you. The problem is that much of the source information on this topic in English is not very reliable and very little of the true information is translated. I have abook from the Wewelsburg museum that was translated into English and approved by the museum which disputes that the symbol is Nazi or that it was put into the floor along time before Himmler. It is not about having my head in the clouds, it is about getting my head out of the clouds and openly discussing someting. If discussion is stopped then something is not right and I want to educate myself.

__________________
ABOUT ME

"Try everything out without bias or preconceived ideas, and hold on to whatever works best." - Karl Spießberger, 'Der erfolgreiche Pendel-Praktiker.'

Heathens Against Hate

freies Radikal

So even if this symbol is older than this Himmler, it can not be very old at this place, because the castle is not very old. This place and castle has nothing to do with old Germanic tradition.

Rattenfaenger

Radikal is right. What is the matter bout this symbol? It has nothing to do with odinism or asatru (actually is there a difference or is this the same?)

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Witichis

The meaning of the Black Sun is not historical but mythologic.

There is an explanation of the number code (3, 9, 12, 21, 128) based on FUTHARK, bit long for translation here but I'm sure there exists english sources at the web. You can as well take it for the hyperborean myth or the hollow-world (sp?) theory, if you like to believe this. 12 was also the number of King Arthur's knights (and we know the holy grail has different interpretations). Contrary to the white sun, the black sun represents the metaphysic forces in us and it also can mean the reawakening of nordic spirit.

Those were motives which got used from nazi esoterism but most have their genuine roots in germanic and european mythology.

FK0071a

Thanks Witichis!

Witichis, In English regarding the significance numerically and mythologically I have found this which you might find interesting: Die Schwarzesonne by: Steve Anthonijsz 1, 2.

__________________
ABOUT ME

"Try everything out without bias or preconceived ideas, and hold on to whatever works best." - Karl Spießberger, 'Der erfolgreiche Pendel-Praktiker.'

Heathens Against Hate

freies Radikal

If you can not rely on facts, believe in magic and play with numbers.
And play with Symbols which were designed by extreme dubious people.

Witichis

What facts ? I already mentioned the sign most certainly was designed by the SS but I didn't read anything from Wiligut if you were refering to him. So if you got additional informations about the Black Sun was assigned or used in any specific nazi meaning, feel free to share it with us.

Blutwolf

The Black Sunwheel is an NS creation only. It should show an svastika. It was placed on the wewelsburg before the real svastika was printed to flags. It should show the melting of heathern culture with the new race ideologie (sunwheel with svastika).

A nice report (in german only) could be found there:
http://www.dasversteckspiel.de/nazisymbole3.html

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freies Radikal

Sorry, I just like to stress out, that if you have no reliable findings, for this symbol, you can not play hypothetical number games. Nothing personal.
I think we agree this symbol is a relatively new one.